you sei'm so farrom perfect at today iear the scars. >> >> good evening, "business matters," great guests. it will be a great show. we are talking about should racial preferences continue, affirmative action, those kinds of things. brian anthony, if you think about the african-american community, do they need a lift up? >> it doesn't help, laws like this that keep happening it keepputting minorities at a disadvantage. >> you think let the marketplace do it's work and -- >> i believe it should stand actually. in my opinion, this is reverse discrimination if you are not allowed to compete on your merit for school or four position in the workplace. >> maybe you grew up in a different time when the playing field wasn't so even, so level. do you feel that in fact, this is important to sort of level off the playing field? >> i do. i do. when we talk about affirmative action, it's important to make some extinction. discontinuation. when some people think of affirmative action, they think of a phot could system. the supreme court case was based on whether you can have race conscious reference and admissions to make race part of the equation. >> and you leave that's something we should do. >> absolutely. >> we need the color blinded mission, that needs to continue. >> what you are saying is you are not agreeing with david. >> no, i do agree with david. >> a minute ago you didn't agree with david. i was calling sonia coat to might or to tyke you off her christmas list. i thought he disagreed too. >> it's america, you know, you come from humble beginnings and were a success. i had 125.56 in the bank when i joined the marine corps, i'm a successful business person. this affirmative action and quotas, it's insane, we are all americans. >> is it easy to say if you are white and have had more opportunity, is that your point? >> absolutely. the opponents of affirmative action or racial preferences would say we live in a post racial society. therefore, these issues or these thing are no longer needed. give us a time line. when does this end? whe does the civil war end for you? can you give me a deadline? is it 2050? is it 2300? >> let me ask you the question, the question isn't when does it end -- >> why not? it's going on forever. >> it's a matter of heart, not legislation. so your question comes down to what has the capacity to change the human heart? the reason these measures were put 234 in place, if we ignore the history of our country, then what we are doing is we are looking blindly at a situation. >> that's bunk. how would you like to be the young man or young girl who studied your butt off, you had a 93, the cutoff for white students was 94 and some black student at 73 took your position at harvard. >> now, you got him wound up. >> let's find out where you are. >> 30% or more african-americans and hispanics with a 3.5g.p.a., high school g.p.a. only go to community college as opposed to -- >> so it's not a level playing field. >> this will be a great show. we got to go to break. "business matters," stay with us. had. >> we are back, i got to apologize brian because the way i sent the question, he thought i meant something else and ron was concerned that you were off coat to might or's christmas car list, but h-- card list, but he is back on. >> so what you are i saying you are agreeing. >> is not affirmative action and quotas driving a bigger wedge in than it's doing good? is it not driving a bigger wedge in? you want the special treatment until, you can't give me a date, so it's indefinite. >> i used to think, you know, affirmative action was kind of obsolete until recently the education system not being fair, i think it needs to be implemented in the education system until graduation with a bachelor's degree. >> you think that the student who has a 93 and the cutoff was 94 for students at harvard. if you had a 73 you should be able to take his seat at harvard is that what you are telling me? about. >> but that scenario -- you are not an american. >> the problem that we have is it translates into society. is there anybody that has a minority background, it's me. i was born from a cuban father, span yard mother, i grew up in venezuela. went to new york and i'm married to a colombian. the sense of entitlement for our youth is when they go to the workplace, they need to get hired. >> this is different. >> you can't repeat what he just said. he is not begging for affirmative action. >> i don't think anybody is begging for affirmative action. >> the question is given the history, is it different for african-americans? is it different for black americans? >> come on. >> where does it end? it don't end. >> we are an american. everybody has a break. you got a president of the united states that's black. >> you got to do this one person at a time. >> you have a president of the united states that's half black, you have sonia might or who is a minority. she was born into poverty and she worked her way up. >> don't you understand what that means? >> he said the same way clarence thomas got on the supreme court. >> mr. angle, if i may -- >> you got to tell me stuff that's pertinent. >> here is what's factual. racism still exists in america today. would you deny that? >> no, no, answer the question. >> you people are racist against white americans. >> i will answer the question. >> so we can have an intelligent debate. >> i want to answer the question, yes, but you know who creates that racism in the world we live in, the people that are still being raced upon. that is the biggest problem we have now, hispanics, black, we can't call black people black anymore. it doesn't make sense. if they call me latino, i get offended, they have to call me hispanic. >> we are talking in broad againerralties. here are the facts when it comes to affirmative action in whatever shape is takes. the gender group that is benefited the most from affirmative action has been white females. and if we take the specific issues of the supreme court's decision around race, conscious admission in colleges, race -- >> race conscious admission, in harvard, in particular, are you saying harvard? that's where the big issue was. >> at northampton community college is there discrimination there? >> i thought we were talking about realies of the supreme court's decision. >> let's talk realities. that's a good point. >> let me continue. they had a point system, 150 points. of the 150 points, 20 points went to race. but also 16 points went to the part of the state that you came from. there was points that were given for your gender. race was not the predominant issue that decided admission. >> let me ask the question which i read in preparation for this piece. in fact part of it is that things have changed and for many, many years being african-american, you really, it wasn't a level playing field. so now it is, i guess the point. we shifted to sort of make up in essence for the history. >>eople think it is because of the president, but that's not the case. >> i can understand if you come back from the war and you are disabled and they give you some benefit, i understand that. i can see that. but everybody in america who is able to work and able to think and able to -- you have all of the opportunities in the world. your opportunities were no less than mine. you got a president in the united states right now, you got two supreme court justices. what do you want? >> he does not make -- contrary to belief, just because our president is african-american does not mean a -- >> no, it doesn't. to me, it doesn't. do you feel that? >> no. >> all you have to do is take a look at what's been transpiring in the news over the last two weeks. >> i want to touch on that sperling incident. was anybody shocked by hearing those words in the 21st century or were you like, okay, i knew it was out there? >> could i be absolutely honest, from the tape and audio that i her, he didn't say anything racist. he actually just showed his level of disrespect toward minorities and lack of consideration and that he did not care for them. all he cares about is his paycheck, because he was clearly stating i don't have an issue i just don't want you publicizing and broadcasting. >> did you find that offensive an african-american. >> i found it disrespectful on many levels. >> how about you, david? >> after 49 years of being black, you don't get shocked and surprised when you hear those things. >> do you think in the 231st century i can't believe i'm hearing this. >> he is 81 years old. >> he didn't pick up a microphone at a basketball game and say this. he has a young chick and he has a nice wife at home 78 or 80 years old. he is talking to his young chickee who is flirting with the boys. that's what the whole thing was about. >> i don't care what you do -- >> the young chickee had enough of him ef ditly. >> you said something that's important. it's how we define racism today because how we define that word determines how we view the need -- >> the word should be done away from, you are an american, you are an american. >> you can't say that. he is an american. i'm an american. >> that's easy for you to say. >> i am an american. >> i'm born and raised here. >> he serves on council. >> i will say i am an american. i respect that. >> i am an american. i was born in new york. i'm very american. >> let me do this, so you see this maybe from a different viewpoint, you know, you are not an african-american, you are note anglo or white american, your thoughts are in between. your thoughts are merits will get you where you want to go. >> absolutely into and you never thought that being a latino there were opportunities not available to you? >> what i feel is everyone should be given the same opportunities but, and this is a very big but, you should not get anything because you are are a minority. that's where i have the discrepancy with this. >> and that's the misnomer when we talk affirmative action, because if i hear the way you guys talk about it, you are talking about it in terms of that everyone expects it as an entitlement. and all we are simply saying is that race consciousness in terms of making decisions about inclusion and diversity should be part of the equation. >> all right. i'm going to get shot. >> 80% or maybe 90, i don't know, of the plars in nba are african-americans whatever you want me to call you, black americans, does that not take, should i not have 50% white americans in the -- >> we will answer that we got to go to commercial. great, great show. brian got so up set his bow tie started spinning. be right back. "business matters." >> hey, we are back, allyson, we are back and i got to tell you, brian's tie, the white was on the other side, it completely spun around, that's how much -- >> if he doesn't shape up, esther lee is coming in. >> uht-oh, brian can hold his own. >> earlier we mentioned brian, we mentioned about younger generations being color blind. why is affirmative action necessary in today's world where really we are trying to blend ethnicities and race? >> it's necessary because of the school system not being as fair. i think minorities are always at a disadvantage. like i said, when you go to community college to university or college, most of us have to attend a community college first even though we had the brains to go to the four year school. >> so it's economics is what you are saying? >> it's the money. >> how does economics play. >> affirmative action, socioeconomic status, how does that play a role? what application? >> go ahead. i'm sorry. >> he wants to put the spin on these. let him go. >> i'm still recovering from the nba discussion which you had. >> the point is why didn't you get some players from the players in the nba to help you get into better college,. >> that doesn't really -- >> what is good for the goose is good for the gander. ever. gander. >> the comment that was made with regards to merit. in my previous life when i worked in the marketplace aves global developer. i was responsible for recruiting and there was a value system we had as an organization. we thought if we had a diverse workplace we brought more values to, more value to our customers. so when we were hiring, if all things are given equal, so you are talking merit. i agree with you 100%. nobody should get a position they are not qualified for. >> you are saying if all things were equal you would hire the minority candidate? >> for the value of diversity. if you don't value this diversity, then the conversation of affirm it had action means nothing. in business, what you value is what you will pay for. >> he is also saying if you got the 73 score at harvard and you get the job over the white kid at 93. >> i said i believe affirmative action is necessary as far as education until you get your bachelor's degree. once you step into the real world it's all on merit. i want to go into an interview and get that on merit. >> i think the real world is when your children is in kindergarten. that's their real world. >> we protect and we lie to our children to build this bubble around their lifestyle until they are of a certain age. >> the government shouldn't get involved. >> i was protected and sheltered to a degree, but, you know, your parents will tell you how many times, and you may have children that you lie or make something, make believe. >> fairy tails. >> so they are comfortable in certain situation. and you realize my parents were lying to me as a child. >> but the government should not get in the way. >> well, it is. >> up until education, after that you are on merit. >> you make a great point in terms of what is the role of government in resolving these sociological issues? >> go back to the constitution. it's not affirmative action. >> in our nation's history, it has always ended up about the supreme court has had to make the ultimate decision in regards to how do we create a perfect union and have true equality in our nation. it has always come down to case that's have come before the supreme court. if the supreme court had never made those decisions, brown versus the board of education, where would we be? you say it's not the government's role. >> did you like the michigan decision most recently. the michigan decision was on affirmative action and coat to they upheld that the voters could vote not to have affirmative action in michigan. >> they upheld that the voters at the polls could make a determination, but in their opinion, they said this does not say anything about what we view the constitutionality of affirmative action. >> that's your watering it down. the bottom line is in michigan people had enough of affirmative action. and -- >> ginsburg was the other one. >> but this goes to my point, if we look at the history of our nation, if we allow the majority to determine the rights of all, then do you think back in the 60s, the majority in mississippi would have wanted integration. >> pay attention. america is the land of opportunity whether you are rich or poor. >> you are blind. >> i'm blind. >> you have a president of of the united states. what do you want? >> let me ask a question. mon is saying, boy, this is unfair, for instance, to white americans. the question is it's been unfair in the other direction for a long time. do african-americans think it's our turn? when you talk about unfair, we lived it for a long period of time. does anybody feel that way? >> the point is when you are talking affirmative action, people say its unfair for the majority. could you say it's been unfair the other way for a loaning -- >> it's been unfair for many years, it's been unfair foremany, many years. >> now it's my turn. >> i don't think it's -- >> he is all right. this guy is programmed. he is all right. he is giving you real life experiences here. you know how you got to go to northampton community college because white taxpayers paid taxes to go to college. so it was the white person -- i was a trustee. >> it's subsidized by white taxpayers. >> if you ever want to determine why we need affirmative action, the case has been made for itself. >> and it's perpetual based on him. >> allyson myers you take us out. >> i'm a rabble rouser that's what i do at "business matters." we are not over. don't turn off the television. >> he is my best buddy. >> hey, we are back, and the first thing you have been out here two minutes, and you have to go to juan, juan is doing a good job. juan is a successful business person and a good dresser. >> i got in trouble. >> so here you go. go to juan. >> i want to go back to real quickly to the spir ling, the -- sterling, the clippers owner. when you were like it doesn't surprise me at all. does that mean you agree with the people on the right that say he never you have have been fined that much money and been thoan out of everything he has been thrown out of because that shouldn't be part of what he did, do you agree? >> do i agree with the decision that the nba commission made? >> or do you disagree? >> i agree with the decision. >> here is your best chance. >> i do agree. i don't think the punishment was enough. i don't think it was enough. >> they should have hung him, okay. >> the decision was based on how much money this guys has. you want a million dollars, why not $100,000. >> why ban him for life? the man is 81 years old. he got one foot in the grave. they will push him to retirement. >> do you think they were too harsh on him. >> not too harsh but i don't think it was harsh enough. >> he is happy, they will push him to early retirement. >> but you said earlier that he made a racist comment to the media. >> not to be disrespectful but he wasn't racist so why is he being defined for racism. i cannot agree or disagree with the decision made. >> that's the mix up. i don't think it's anything racist, but his action and what he displays to us in america, there should be a harsher punishment. >> in essence of what he was saying he doesn't want to see you at his basketball games. that would bother me. >> it was disrespectful on many levels. >> real quick, the next game there was a black and white guy, they were friends and he brought a sign i brought a black guy to the game. >> you can appreciate that this as a businessman, i think what the nba did, set aside the issues of the conversation, what the nba did was manage their brand. >> that's exactly. they were losing sponsors, losing money and somebody had to take the hit, and he took the hit. >> isn't that what you see in the marketplace? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> i'm a little bit on the sidelines and i don't how much you watch soccer, but the championship is being played and this guy was thrown a banana onto the field and he picked up, he ate it and he did the corner kick and he didn't take any offense to it, and it came to the point where they were saying that all of these players from south america, they are monkeys and they are coming out -- oh, that's what that was. >> we have one minute. we go round the horn. your closing thoughts, 20 seconds. >> tony, it's america. everybody lives in a land of opportunity. maybe you guys should try russia or china and you would realize what a great land of opportunity. affirmative action has to end somewhere because byoing what you are doing, you are driving a bigger wedge between minorities and caucasians. >> jan. >> i degree with ron and i think we need to stop it's my turn it's your turn the white turn, the black turn, it's our turn, it's the american turn and we need to fight for it. >> david jones. >> as a pastor, i wish the world was perfect and i wish there wasn't hate in the human heart, amen. but the reality is there is a thing called sin, it manifests in racist attitudes and that will always be a part of us and because of that we need the justice system to protect exactly what the 14th amendment says in terms of equality. >> brian jones, close us out in a big way. >> that's back where it started. >> i want to say affirmative action should not be shaped by popular vote. that's all i have to say. >> that's it? >> very profound. >> and he disagrees with the supreme court decision, going back to how we started in the firstlace. i think this i another show. >> whatever you say. >> right now we got to go. next monday, be back with us. , really it's